Have We Really Improved?

[Jibbix]

We hear it all the time. "Has SpongeBob gotten better?", they ask. "Yes, Seasons 8 & 9 have been great improvements.", We say. But now it's time to ask that question differently.

Has it really improved?

Season 6:
http://www.sbmania.net/pictures.php?img=cOgKEnWBhiBZz%2BgkgjvmPGvxW45J9ERQ8O3msyWyFZE%3D
haha what is this

Season 7:
http://www.sbmania.net/pictures.php?img=EuKeJT0cNIWBoea8mD1pzgBu%2F4SV9KDVF8C8CacPaO8%3D
This is boring and irritating.

Season 8:
http://www.sbmania.net/pictures.php?img=6o24rSd%2BWa5vWiL2vziyeKFt3%2FxyjeYlXtpFFSX1L4Q%3D
Hey, this is actually alright!

Season 9:
http://www.sbmania.net/pictures.php?img=2%2FwLOVcdROA3FRHK80D6soI3LEIIC9V2KQn2WRQc2vQ%3D
Wow, this is great-

http://www.sbmania.net/pictures.php?img=tfXElrn0FIuZ%2B5Pq2QYUucsNWA8OjEgRpFn1mr45%2Bkc%3D
What why is this awful

http://www.sbmania.net/pictures.php?img=lZZzzRrwwGEnP6t05Ju3VSmjgbZ%2BOFsYBybSubuxHsE%3D
A good episode? What?

"I can't take these conflicting flavors!"

And this is where we run into a problem. We can all agree that episodes are collectively better than they were a few years ago (but one year ago, however, is debatable), but by how much? We can get episodes that are wonderful, like the aforementioned "Eek, An Urchin", and a week later receive "Squid Baby", a horrible stumble-step backwards into Season 6 territory and a reminder of what the show once was. "Jailbreak" and "Squirrel Record" can air and be wonderful, showing the characters at their best (and in Sandy's case, funniest and most useful) and then "Little Yellow Book" can come and mess everything up, providing us with horrible character derailment and jerk attitudes from earlier bad episodes. So what's the problem?

Inconsistency.

You can say "But as a whole, the episodes are better", and that's partly true. But is it better to get straight C-'s (Season 6 era), or constantly fluctuate from D's to A's and end up averaging a C anyway (Season 9 era, subjectively of course). Going further with that example, is it better to have a student that is a slacker and has no potential, or have a student that shows potential and shows that he can be good if he tries, but constantly under-preforms because he is lazy?

I think this has been my main problem with the show as of late. "Extreme Spots", "Eek An Urchin", "Jailbreak!", even "License To Milkshake"-- They are all fantastic examples of what the show is capable of, when it's trying. And "Squid Baby", "Squid Defense", and "Little Yellow Book" are examples of how easily the show can revert to being bad and weird. And that's what's wrong. Not specifically that the show can revert to Season 6-7 standards at the drop of a hat (although that is kinda scary), but it's that the show has shown how high it can go, even at this point....And it just never goes there consistently. Season 8 was a season filled with solid B+/A- material, and when we finally surpass that gold standard, we cannot keep it consistent. And that bugs me.

I think if the Season can eventually rack up enough winners though, it'll be like Season 4, which is one of my favorite seasons. So we'll have to see. ....I'm not entirely sure why I wrote this, just felt like expressing my frustration with the show.

Is it better to have an inconsistent handful of amazing episodes, okay episodes, and horrible episodes, or have a solid group of above average ones?

Discuss.

 

[E.V.I.L]

I would take the solid average. What tends to happen when we are given inconsistent opinions, we dwell on the negatives. This isn't our fault as it is human nature to dwell on the negatives. Season 9 does have VERY STELLAR episodes, but despite that, we will always forget those for the abominations like Little Yellow Book. I believe one of the reasons people loved the pre-movie seasons was the fact that a negative episode was relatively rare (of course, Season 3 is a bit more bitter in my book than the other seasons). Maybe we had a few oddballs, like Dumped, or I'm With Stupid, or Party Pooper Pants, but overall, you could say each season had at least 80% good. Come to Season 4 and that takes a major downturn, with more bad than good. Obviously, when someone is so used to that wonderful selection, they'll forget about Krusty Towers and dwell on *drumroll* All That Glitters, Fungus Among Us, The Gift of Gum, etc. Therefore, the reason why Season 8 is considered so good and Season 9 is being taken as disappointing is because Season 8 (with a few very bad (Squidward's School FGU's)/very good (PlanetotJelly) whereas Season 9 is just mixing bags. :P

 

[Amphitrite]

I guess this explains why there are still some haters out there. <_<

I'm also appalled that you didn't mention "Plankton's Pet" in your theory. That episode was pure awesomeness!

 

[HarryPotterLives]

Although I haven't see most of Seasons 8 or 9 yet, I can agree with this. In general, post-movie's quality is very inconsistent. It's really weird how quickly and erratically it can go from amazing episodes to awful episodes to just plain okay episodes.

This is one of the reasons why pre-movie, as a whole, was better: consistency. Like E.V.I.L said, bad episodes were few and far between, and most episodes were at least above average.

So yeah. You can put me down for the solid group of above-average.

 

[TropicalNards112233]

Yes, we have improved. All in all, despite the mish-mash later seasons tend to be, the majority of the episodes are pretty good. At the very least, most of them are just average - not too bad, not too good either (but still watchable). Yes, there are a couple handfuls of
god-awful, reputation destroying, pieces of ::dolphin noise:: episodes. But those episodes are really few and in-between in the whole spectrum of things.

 

[TattleTaleStrangler]

I would love to hear a detailed, intelligent argument about ONE episode in Season 3 that was 'bad' or disrupted the flow of the season's consistency.

Character abuse doesn't count. There are just as many people who enjoy it and find it funny than those who hate it. In fact, more tend to like it. See how many times you find "The Continuum of Cartoon Fools" on people's Top 10 Dexter's Lab Episode lists.

I demand to hear one that we can all agree "missed" the mark and was not of the quality of the rest of the season.

Until then all of these 'which season is best/worst/overrated/underrated/improving/slumping' is pointless because we know that the show has already peaked and has not reached the quality of pre-movie since... the movie and occasionally one ODD episode. We're kidding ourselves otherwise.

 

[TropicalNards112233]

I would love to hear a detailed, intelligent argument about ONE episode in Season 3 that was 'bad' or disrupted the flow of the season's consistency.

Character abuse doesn't count. There are just as many people who enjoy it and find it funny than those who hate it. In fact, more tend to like it. See how many times you find "The Continuum of Cartoon Fools" on people's Top 10 Dexter's Lab Episode lists.

I demand to hear one that we can all agree "missed" the mark and was not of the quality of the rest of the season.

Until then all of these 'which season is best/worst/overrated/underrated/improving/slumping' is pointless because we know that the show has already peaked and has not reached the quality of pre-movie since... the movie and occasionally one ODD episode. We're kidding ourselves otherwise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIAY8epeYLM&feature=player_embedded

 

[a guy1235]

I didn't agree with PieGuy's Scumbobs, "The Great Snail Race" is one of my favorite episodes of the series, and "Party Pooper Pants" is extremely underrated. "Born Again Krabs" is another one of my favorite episodes.

 

[TattleTaleStrangler]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIAY8epeYLM&feature=player_embedded

I will never have the time to watch that entire thing, but it seems that the episodes the reviewer has a problem with are:

Party Pooper Pants
The Great Snail Race
Ugh
The Sponge Who Could Fly
Krabby Land
Pranks a Lot

I also took a look at the Second Season video he did... and it suddenly occurred to me that this coincides with the recent bashing of Dumped on the forum. I for one never thought it was that great of an episode but it seems as though the reviewer has imparted much influence on the consensus of the forum.

Interesting selections, definitely quite a mixed bag. He seems not to enjoy the double-lengthers so much. However, the margin between "Good" and "Meh" is questionable, and it seems that the grading guidelines are based on personal preference and nostalgia, rather than literally tallying the emotionally enjoyable moments in real time, subtract them by the negative moments (ones that actually invoked disgust, confusion, or shame), and give bonus points for achievements regarding story, size and scope of plot, originality, etc.

I really should give these a full viewing before I say more, but those are my initial thoughts.

 

[TropicalNards112233]

I will never have the time to watch that entire thing, but it seems that the episodes the reviewer has a problem with are:

Party Pooper Pants
The Great Snail Race
Ugh
The Sponge Who Could Fly
Krabby Land
Pranks a Lot

I also took a look at the Second Season video he did... and it suddenly occurred to me that this coincides with the recent bashing of Dumped on the forum. I for one never thought it was that great of an episode but it seems as though the reviewer has imparted much influence on the consensus of the forum.

Interesting selections, definitely quite a mixed bag. He seems not to enjoy the double-lengthers so much. However, the margin between "Good" and "Meh" is questionable, and it seems that the grading guidelines are based on personal preference and nostalgia, rather than literally tallying the emotionally enjoyable moments in real time, subtract them by the negative moments (ones that actually invoked disgust, confusion, or shame), and give bonus points for achievements regarding story, size and scope of plot, originality, etc.

I really should give these a full viewing before I say more, but those are my initial thoughts.

I think you should definitely watch them. It's worth it, and his S1 and S2 are also good ones.

 

[Sweat]

Personally, I think season 3 was the most conflicting season of all. Here are some of the gold episodes of season 3:

• Chocolate With Nuts
• Just One Bite
• Idiot Box
• Snowball Effect
• Krab-Borg
• Krusty Krab Training Video
• Wet Painters
• Krabby Land
• Missing Identity

And then...

• Club SpongeBob (I like it, but many don't)
• One Krabs Trash
• As Seen on TV
• Can You Spare a Dime?
• Party Pooper Pants
• The Sponge Who Could Fly

This is my personal criteria for a bad mix of good and bad. Season 3 is like salt mixed with Nutella. Season 9 is more like salt mixed with the combination of salt mixed with Nutella.

 

[TattleTaleStrangler]

Literally, before tonight, I have never EVER seen any of those episodes on any list people would consider "bad". Quote a random moment from any of those, and I guarantee that almost an entire generation of western children will be able to identify not only the fact that it was a Spongebob reference, but will no less than be able to identify the specific episode from which that joke came. Season 3 is THAT memorable and it continues to stand the test of time, like it or not.

Back in the 'old' days, Club Spongebob and One Krabs Trash were considered two of the best of that entire season. And if there was ANY double-lengther that could even be considered 'just okay' it was Ugh. The recent hate over Party Pooper Pants is rather confusing to me. :cry2:

Keep in mind that a lot of the humor that gave the earlier seasons their magic 'touch' flew over our heads when we were 11, 12 and even 13. It took a good while for us to really be able to appreciate how much wit and cunning went into every bit back then. So it could just be that you and a few other members here (there seems to be a rather recent influx of very opinionated, youngsters, although to their credit I will say how impressed I am at how they articulate themselves on the forum) haven't really reached that point yet. Fun times those were :hehe:

 

[Hasbean]

In terms of "horrible, no good, very bad episodes" that gain world wide infamy, they've definitely decreased since Season 7. A Pal For Gary was the last episode that I felt was rightly ranted at on a massive extent. I'm not fond of Squid Baby, true, but Little Yellow Book was underrated, for reasons which I'm explaining later in the post. The fact is that Season 9 is only half done, and for all we know we could be watching some divinely inspired comedy gold come October 14, or watching Pet or Pests for the next few months. So if a 40 episode season is churning out only 2 bad episodes, it's definitely a sign that show quality has improved since the middle of Season 6 (The Splinter, Gone, Cephalopod Lodge, Squid's Visit, Pet or Pests are all from mid S6. 5 episodes of a 47 episode season does not necessarily make a bad season, but those are the ones that stand out for people).

EVIL is right about bad episodes standing out for those more than good, but I'd say it's not to the same extent with the average viewer. If someone who grew up in pre-movie era, got their "new SB" education from MoBrosStudios's (who actively hates the main character) countdown, or reads tv.com or RetroJunk, then It's a SpongeBob Christmas! or Plankton's Pet are not going to shake them from their conviction that SB has gone downhill since Hillenburg. Those people are too entrenched in laziness or the attitude of stylish pessimism and mob tendency that's so prevalent with Internet culture, particularly on YouTube. Truth be told, when I watched Jailbreak! (my first episode I watched as an adult) after listening to MoBros, I thought it was boring, but after I had watched it a second time after watching many other episodes, I realized that it was actually quite good. We can't worry about people not liking the show if they're not going to keep an open mind.

Have We Really Improved? In fixing what the ranters call "what is wrong with SpongeBob", I think the show has definitely done that. Approximately midway through Season 7, writers have looked back on what was wrong with the more infamous episodes and tried to make up for them. All That Glitters? Evil Spatula. A Pal for Gary? Gary's New Toy and Treats!. Squid's Visit or Cephalopod Lodge? Enchanted Tiki Dreams. One Coarse Meal? The Other Patty and Plankton's Pet. Put in plain English, there's less character abuse, character derailments, or mean-spirited scenes, and subverting these "new Spongebob sucks" tropes has been one of the best qualities I've seen of the last 2.5 seasons. And this is why I can't get upset at Little Yellow Book, because Squidward deserved what he got but he felt it was worth it. Spongebob is happy as an author, Squidward is happy reading his secrets, and the Bikini Bottomites are happy because they have a target on whom to express their mob tendencies. It's a weird happy ending, like Enchanted Tiki Dreams, but it's still happy.

On the subject of specials, I say we've improved a whole bunch from Season 7, and that I can't wait to see what an S9 special looks like. On viewer reception, even the cynics on TvTropes liked It's a SpongeBob Christmas!, calling it a post-movie Crowning Moment of Awesome.

I respect Pieguy, but I honestly don't have high hopes that he'll judge post-movie episodes fairly. He's already said he'll have a bottom 5 come the season 4 review. Not to mention he was one of those people who automatically assumed SB "that Seasons 5-8 were ScumBob" despite not having watched hardly any of the episodes. And his avatar is the original Nickolodeon logo, so how can I really count on him not to be nostalgic?

tl;dr: I realized that I didn't really answer the question and probably contradicted myself. But yes, we have. Maybe lower your expectations for the Guitar Lord/Alexander duo, but yes.

And for Squidward's sake, Halibut, it's nearly midnight where I live; get that sig away from me!

 

[TropicalNards112233]

And this is why I can't get upset at Little Yellow Book, because Squidward deserved what he got but he felt it was worth it. Spongebob is happy as an author, Squidward is happy reading his secrets, and the Bikini Bottomites are happy because they have a target on whom to express their mob tendencies. It's a weird happy ending, like Enchanted Tiki Dreams, but it's still happy.

I respect Pieguy, but I honestly don't have high hopes that he'll judge post-movie episodes fairly. He's already said he'll have a bottom 5 come the season 4 review. Not to mention he was one of those people who automatically assumed SB "that Seasons 5-8 were ScumBob" despite not having watched hardly any of the episodes. And his avatar is the original Nickolodeon logo, so how can I really count on him not to be nostalgic?

What you said about LYB: EXACTLY!!! I really like that episode. Were the town people assholes? Absolutely. But we should be used to that by now. They haven't been good since Band Geeks. I mean really. And ETD is also good, just btw.

Bold: When did he say that?

But give him the credit that he's at least going to watch these new episodes. He admitted that he just sorta jumped on the bandwagon, and I think that's a step in the right direction. He admits he's seen very little of Seasons 5-9.

And honestly, I think you should PM him your thoughts. You can try to convince him to look at them from a non-nostalgic point of view. Either way, I'm sure he'd be glad to hear your opinions. He's got an account here, so really, please do it.

 

[E.V.I.L]

I would love to hear a detailed, intelligent argument about ONE episode in Season 3 that was 'bad' or disrupted the flow of the season's consistency.

Character abuse doesn't count. There are just as many people who enjoy it and find it funny than those who hate it. In fact, more tend to like it. See how many times you find "The Continuum of Cartoon Fools" on people's Top 10 Dexter's Lab Episode lists.

I demand to hear one that we can all agree "missed" the mark and was not of the quality of the rest of the season.

Until then all of these 'which season is best/worst/overrated/underrated/improving/slumping' is pointless because we know that the show has already peaked and has not reached the quality of pre-movie since... the movie and occasionally one ODD episode. We're kidding ourselves otherwise.

Well for a season to be consistent, not every single episode has to be the same level. Seasons 1-3 had a FEW oddballs (I Was a TG, I'mWST, PPP, but this is my view anywyas) but they were so meager in amount, the good episodes just aggregated into one big, wonderful season. (or one big era)
Also, I think the meaning of the word overrated has been severely misinterpreted. If something is overrated, it can be good, or even excellent. Overrated simply means you think it doesn't deserve the amount of praise it gets. Yes, Chocolate With Nuts IMO is overrated, but it still is a great episode and stays loyal to my top 100, for example. Also, not every good episode is overrated, and bad episodes aren't overrated due to their low praise.
As for character abuse not counting, well it may not count for you, but it's important for others. You can't ask for an example then rule out a bunch of people with opinions. What may be consistent to us is in fact inconsistent to a 6 year old and vice versa. Although consistent may be "fact", it depends on a bunch of people's opinions, so it's difficult to just label a season as consistent.

 

[SpongeRoadie UK]

I agree that season 9 is a complete downgrade when we compare it to season 8. But we can't see it by seasons. We see it from episodes. What I see these days is that there are more good episodes and less bad episodes. Consistency is always a problem, but when you see it the way I see it, quality has improved. It will never touch it's peak. Never. However, it is improving from the dark days of seasons 4,5 and 6. I look at how the episodes improve and not from the season's consistency. Bad episodes come and go. Nothing can change that.

 

[OWM]

This is why we love you Nuggets.

 

[SBManiac!!!!!!]

I am one of those fans who would rather have a group of above average (or at least average) episodes, because then it shows that the writers are really comfortable with their position and have already developed a winning style and formula that is sure to draw in viewers. Also, like I said in one of my very first "comeback" posts, SpongeBob was known for being consistently great, despite there being some duff episodes like E.V.I.L mentioned. (I, for example, think SpongeBob's arrogance in As Seen On TV is downright annoying and not funny at all. Also, a musical-based episode of a kid's cartoon ending with the main character gaining the ability to fly that everyone in the fanbase seems to hate? Where have I heard that before? :P) If SpongeBob makes a return to that consistency, then it truly will be great once more. As of now, at least the writing and humor of the show have improved from the past few seasons, although I wouldn't say they're up to pre-movie's standards (at least not yet).

 

[Master WhoBruh]

I am one of those fans who would rather have a group of above average (or at least average) episodes, because then it shows that the writers are really comfortable with their position and have already developed a winning style and formula that is sure to draw in viewers. Also, like I said in one of my very first "comeback" posts, SpongeBob was known for being consistently great, despite there being some duff episodes like E.V.I.L mentioned. (I, for example, think SpongeBob's arrogance in As Seen On TV is downright annoying and not funny at all. Also, a musical-based episode of a kid's cartoon ending with the main character gaining the ability to fly that everyone in the fanbase seems to hate? Where have I heard that before? :p) If SpongeBob makes a return to that consistency, then it truly will be great once more. As of now, at least the writing and humor of the show have improved from the past few seasons, although I wouldn't say they're up to pre-movie's standards (at least not yet).

Hooray. Someone agrees with me. I thought SpongeBob was unlikeable in As Seen on TV too.

 

[The Vampyre of Time]

Personally, I think season 3 was the most conflicting season of all. Here are some of the gold episodes of season 3:

• Chocolate With Nuts
• Just One Bite
• Idiot Box
• Snowball Effect
• Krab-Borg
• Krusty Krab Training Video
• Wet Painters
• Krabby Land
• Missing Identity

And then...

• Club SpongeBob (I like it, but many don't)
• One Krabs Trash
• As Seen on TV
• Can You Spare a Dime?
• Party Pooper Pants
• The Sponge Who Could Fly

This is my personal criteria for a bad mix of good and bad. Season 3 is like salt mixed with Nutella. Season 9 is more like salt mixed with the combination of salt mixed with Nutella.

I actually liked the first 4 'bad ones', so you call them, of season 3. Anyway it's just an opinion.

Anyway I agree with Jibbix. Seasons 8 and 9 are both good, but they are so inconsistent. One episode can be incredibly enjoyable, and then another can fail.

It's like Saturday Night Live in a way. When they hit, they hit hard, but when they miss. God, they miss.

Anyway nothing will reach the true consistency of 1-3, even if 3 had a few stinkers, especially when it came to specials.